Damnit

**wingwop** · 02-24-2002, 04:06 PM

I'm gonna have to change the channel. If I have to watch that cryin' loser gretzky one more time I'm gonna puke!!

I'll give it to canada though. They played a great game and deserve the win. As for the states, once again in these olympics, the silver is gonna have to do.

As much as I hate to say it, the puck hog sakic played a great game, but even with the loss, I think Richter desirves player of the game.

The USA forwards just didn't press hard enough early. Now a whole lot of jerks have gold medals, (Lindros, Foote, Blake, Sakic and Quinn een though he doesn't get a medal).

**FLII ME** · 02-24-2002, 04:45 PM

Quinn and Gretzky are my heroes!!!!!!!!

**wingwop** · 02-24-2002, 04:49 PM

Okay, now I am gonna hurl!!

**FLII ME** · 02-24-2002, 05:02 PM

I better stand back cuzits going to be all RED

**wingwop** · 02-24-2002, 05:14 PM

I hope if it's a projectille vomit, I can reach Utah and cover Quinn and Gretzky with it.

**FLII ME** · 02-24-2002, 05:22 PM

I don't know what your name is, but whatever it is you are one hell of a funny guy

ahahaha

**wingwop** · 02-24-2002, 05:23 PM

Mario

**P.J Stock** · 02-24-2002, 06:30 PM

I think that when you are under as much pressure as Gretzky was, stupid stuff is bound to come out of your mouth. I think that what he said was not needed, But I will always respect that guy for what he did for the game.

**wingwop** · 02-24-2002, 08:29 PM

Don't make excuses for that weasel. With his wee beady eyes.

**FLII ME** · 02-24-2002, 10:57 PM

Come on Mario, be a sport, you are bashing the worlds greatest hockey player.

If you noticed after his baby speech, it motivated his players and got them the Gold, I think he was trying to motivate the players.

Who knows but it worked

**cASe SenSiTive** · 02-24-2002, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by FLII ME
Come on Mario, be a sport, you are bashing the worlds greatest hockey player.

Bobby Orr was the greatest ever!

**FLII ME** · 02-24-2002, 11:30 PM

Tom, we could debate that topic for the next hundred years, so I will leave it at that.

The only thing I will say is that if you ask majoity of hockey fans that question, 80% will say #99

**cASe SenSiTive** · 02-24-2002, 11:35 PM

Yep... and 80% would be wrong.

Gretzky was amazing... but Orr was even better.

**wingwop** · 02-25-2002, 01:33 AM

Yep, Orr was the sh!t. I'll tell you though (Tom), if Lemieux had been healthy for as long a career as wayne, he'd have surpassed his records with less of a team than edmonton I might add. Don't get me wrong, he's had some good teams, but not like wayne.

Of course, if Orr's knees hadn't fallen apart, he might have all the records himself. Imagine if technology had allowed him some cadavar ligaments!!

**cASe SenSiTive** · 02-25-2002, 09:11 AM

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Gretzky turned Bernie Nichols into a 70 goal scorer! Even Lemieux wasn't that good.

Orr was the first guy to EVER score 100 points. And he did it as a defenseman! He led the league in scoring twice!
In less than ten full seasons, he scored 915 points!

**wingwop** · 02-25-2002, 10:50 AM

His reckless abandon ended his career at least 4 or 5 years early though. Talk about playing hard!!

And Bernie Nichols had a good year!!

**FLII ME** · 02-25-2002, 04:36 PM

I HAVE WILL POWER
I HAVE WILL POWER
I HAVE WILL POWER

Don't tempt me Tom

**cASe SenSiTive** · 02-26-2002, 12:00 AM

Mario: Nichols had a good season because he was on Gretzky's wing. Wayne had 167 points in that campaign IIRC. He lead a pretty bad Kings team to the playoffs, and a victory over the Oilers too.

And yes, Orr played hard. I'd rather have a short but brilliant career like he did, than hang around forever like some players. <cough>Bourque<cough>

**Darth Xed** · 02-26-2002, 07:34 AM

I am a bit biased here, but if Mario wre healthy his whole career... he'd have better #'s that Gretzky....

Mario was on *BAD* teams for his first 6 years!

Mario has the highest PPG in NHL history (Only person over 2.0 PPG, but that has dropped since his un-retirement to like 1.98 PPG

)

Mario has elevated A LOT of players numbers over the years... Kevin Stevens, Rick Tocchet, to name just a few... good players no doubt, but I Kevin Stevens was a 50 goal scorer by just tapping in Mario's passes in front of the net... give Kev credit for toughing it out in the trenches... but still....

**cASe SenSiTive** · 02-26-2002, 08:55 AM

Jeeze... Is that the only argument Mario fans have? "If Mario were healthy..." Yeah, well if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass when they hopped.

The fact is, he wasn't healthy. That doesn't make him especially cursed. And it also make speculation impossible. Maybe he would have broken Gretzky's records, and maybe not. Remember, it's a lot harder to score 60-70-80 goals a year now than it was back in the 80s.

**Darth Xed** · 02-26-2002, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by cASe SenSiTive
Jeeze... Is that the only argument Mario fans have? "If Mario were healthy..." Yeah, well if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass when they hopped.

The fact is, he wasn't healthy. That doesn't make him especially cursed. And it also make speculation impossible. Maybe he would have broken Gretzky's records, and maybe not. Remember, it's a lot harder to score 60-70-80 goals a year now than it was back in the 80s.

I agree... durability *IS* a factor in the game... and Mario was questionable in that area...

But consider all of the problems he's had...

Major Back problems
Hodkin's Disease
Hip problems
Broken hand

that is a lot to overcome..

When he had Hodkin's disease, he had Chemo Therapy in the afternoon, and then flew to Philly and scored a hat trick... THAT is just about god-like!

**Signal** · 02-26-2002, 03:26 PM

Well since I haven't posted anything about it, I first have to say congrats to the Canadians for the gold!

It was just too close to call ahead of time I think...I had said that the US was REALLY on a roll BUT Canada has had a history of really getting up for the really emotional games, especially with Gretzky involved, like that '88 Canada Cup where Russia had just an amazing team...Since Marty was Canada's goalie I really didn't care who won the gold, hopefully this will boost his confidence even more going into the rest of the regular season.

As far as who's the greatest player, I think different players have really contributed to the NHL on different levels throughout its history...No question Gretzky has the most points...Would Mario have broken those records if he could have stayed healthy??...It's possible, I think he's one of only a few who could have had that chance but then again even Mr. Gretzky admits that the goalies are much better than back when he was in his prime...Maybe someone like Bossy would have had a chance had he stayed healthy?? (I don't know his stats)...But what you can't doubt is that BOTH Lemieux and Gretzky have done alot for this game...As have Orr, Potvin, Richard, Fetisov, Savard, Brett and Bobby Hull, Howe and many others...I think it's a combination of what all these great players have done that have transformed ALL of us on this forum to hockey fans!!!

I just hope the stars of tomorrow will have both the talent and the personalities to keep us excited about the League...

Jason

**originalsix** · 03-05-2002, 10:25 AM

Hey Tom,
I'll have to agree with you on Bobby Orr. Sometimes I think he should have been a forward, just imagine how many points he would have then. Even when Esposito was leading the league,
Orr was right up there with him. Wonder how many points Wayne would have if he were a defenceman. Although Wayne was good
and put up some great numbers, he ruins it by crying all the time.
He was always steaming up some ref's ear about something.

KC

**wingwop** · 03-05-2002, 11:01 AM

Oh God Ken, you're gonna get Tom going about how Lemeiux is always crying about the clutching and grabbing. Which was dwarfed by the amount of Gretzky's crying games. I don't doubt that Orr was the best offensive defensemen EVER. Lemeuix is/ was the greatest centerman EVER. That's my opinion anyway, and I'm right!! I'm not taking away from Gretzky. I'm sure I'm not the only one that sees it that way. Because of the injuries and games played issue, you have to look at the points per game issue to really compare the two. Also, gretzky played for better teams early on than both Lemeuix and Orr. (Although both Pittsburgh and Boston were great teams, neither were Edmonton of the early 80's)

**originalsix** · 03-05-2002, 01:21 PM

The dynasty teams of Edmonton were so good that they changed that 4 on 4 rule. At least they proved they could win it without Gretzky. The Wings now remind me of that team, only the guys that played for Edmonton were alot younger at the time. Look at how many went on to different teams besides Gretzky. The Wings will be a totally different team in about 3 or 4 years after the bulk of the stars retire.

KC

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