We Were Soldiers

[FLII ME]

Saw this movie last nite & feel that this is one of the best war movies that I have seen.Maybe because this was a true story about a US colonel who led 400 soldiers into battle in the first major skirmish of the Viet Nam War.
Mel Gibson stars as Colonel Hal Moore & IMO gives a truly great performance.The battle scenes are graphic , gruesome,& very intense.The movie does't paint a pretty picture of what war is,& I think that was the Director's intent.Don;t want spoil it for people who may want to see it.I will say that after seeing it I wonder why Gen. Westmoreland,the field commander for the Viet Nam war was not fired or even arrested for incompetence.Same for Pres. Johnson.Both of these men basically misled Col.Moore about this battle & generally lied to the American public about the progress of the war.Thankfully now the Presidents & Generals fight to win a war & give the soldiers everything they need to win.

IMO this movie is a must see to get a soldiers perspective of the war.

[cASe SenSiTive]

Bear in mind, that the movie was based on a book written by Mel Gibson's character. That could certainly bias the tone towards his viewpoints.

The whole "war" was a clusterf**k. Blame can be placed on Eisenhower for getting us into it, and Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon for escalating it. They let themselves get sucked into a civil war(that they partially caused), and couldn't figure out how to get out of the situation.
If it hadn't been for the "red scare" and the U.S.'s need to control the politics of the region, there wouldn't have been much of a war at all. Ho Chi Mihn was democratically elected by the people of Vietnam. But the U.S. didn't want a communist in power there, so they propped up President Diem in the south, and blocked the elections that would have made Ho Chi Mihn the leader of all of Vietnam.
The irony is, Minh saw himself as a Vietnamese version of George Washington, and borrowed many of the sentiments from our own Declaration of Independance when he helped throw France out of Vietnam.

Sorry, I got a little off track here.;)

[wingwop]

Actually, I have a different take. The earlier leaders in this "scurmish" were jackasses. With all the "demilitarized zones" such as Cambodia that the US couldn't or wouldn't attack, they just kept their supply lines running and reinforcements coming. The one thing Nixon did referring to his "secret plan" to end the war was attack some of the demilitarized zones and eliminate some of the reinforcements and supplies while continuously pulling out of 'Nam. The bigger problem was that none of the American brass wanted to be associated with our first war loss, so they just kept throwing boys in the grinder.

What's worse than what happened over there is what happened here when they got back. Those friggin hippies should have been dropped into vietnam. Basically, it wasn't about their liberal views or that the war was wrong, it was because those pu$$y's had to justify burning their draft cards, being cowards running off to Canada, you know, like Sly Stalone.

Whether right or wrong, when they come knocking to defend your country, YOU GO!!

[cASe SenSiTive]

Yeah, but what were they "defending" America against? Nothing...
It was just a big pissing match between the US and the Soviets.

[wingwop]

Still, if your country tells you to go, you gotta go. Those draft card burning hippies should still be exiled as cowards and traitors. I don't have any respect for that vegetable Mohammad Ali because of what he did and said during Nam.

[cASe SenSiTive]

Why should we blindly follow our government's wishes if we believe them to be wrong? Just because "our country" asks us to? That's ludicrous.
As for Ali, he could have gone into the army as an entertainer like Elvis. He wouldn't have been in combat. But he decided to give up the prime of his career, his championship belt, and risk a lot of jail time to stand up for something he believed in. Even if you don't agree with his reasons, that's a pretty ballsy thing to do.

[Cane Says]

I am not going to debate whether or not the Vietnam war was right or wrong. However, American men, age 18, are required by law to sign up for the draft. When you are called for the draft, you go because it is the law. Whether that law is right or not is a matter for constitutional lawyers to decide. In the meantime, until that law is overturned, you go.
On a personal level, this country is without a doubt the greatest because of the freedoms we are offered, including being able to safely criticize our government. If my country ever needed me, in whatever capacity, I hope i would have the sacc to give back to her what she has given to me and every other citizen and person who is trying and dying to come live here (legally) amongst the freedoms we have, including the freedom to be an a$$hole.

[Cane Says]

I am not implying anyone on this board is an a$$hole, i was just trying to end a sensitive subject with a joke.

[cASe SenSiTive]

Oh, I see, "the law" says...:rolleyes:
The law says I'm not supposed to speed either, but I still do. The law once said that people weren't allowed to drink alcohol, but they still did.

I would not fight in any war that I didn't personally agree with.

[Cane Says]

That philosophy is all well and good, but, you get caught breaking the law, you pay the penalty.

As for not fighting in a war you don't believe in, the military does make concessions, suchas the conscientious observer. those are people who do not fight, but help in other ways, such as in mash units and such.

[wingwop]

Case sounds like a tree hugging hippy. What Ali did wasn't ballsy in my mind. It was stupid and arrogant, which pretty much describes his whole demograph!! No offense to my homies!!!

[cASe SenSiTive]

Hey! I got yer tree right here!

I'm no hippy. I just have a problem with the attitude that we should all follow whatever our government tells us whether we disagree or not. That's not what this country is supposed to stand for.

I would have no problem fighting and dieing for a cause I believed in. But the Vietnam war certainly wasn't one worthy of my life.

[wingwop]

It's not for us to decide. I'm sure there were a lot of people content under British rule that would have said the same thing about the revolution. I don't like people making decisions for me, but I'd go for sure. It's not for me to decide when we go to war, but if they tell me to go, I'm sure as hell not gonna punk out and run to Canada!!!

[Cane Says]

Here here, what the hell is in canada anyway, mooses and snow. i mean there aren't even that many pro hockey teams in canada anymore, hahahahaha

[cASe SenSiTive]

Originally posted by wingwop
It's not for us to decide. I'm sure there were a lot of people content under British rule that would have said the same thing about the revolution. I don't like people making decisions for me, but I'd go for sure. It's not for me to decide when we go to war, but if they tell me to go, I'm sure as hell not gonna punk out and run to Canada!!!

Funny you should bring up the American Revolution... I think my stance is a lot more akin to the founding father's than to the British loyalist's.
Think about it.... they took a stance that was in direct conflict with their government and king. They basically said that they didn't agree with the British policies, and that they were going to stand up for their beliefs.

[wingwop]

Well, that makes it easy. If they ask you to go to war, you can always revolt. HEHE.

Anyway, what if they asked, er, told you to go to Afghanistan? Would you go or look at that like Nam?

[Cane Says]

A buddy of mine tried to enlist after Sept. 11, he is from N.Y. and lost some family and firneds. He was told he is too old, so he is trying to find something he can do to serve in the war effort because he feels so strongly about it.

[cASe SenSiTive]

Well, I do believe that we need to fight terrorism. I'm not sure that we're going about it the perfect way, but at least we're doing something. My only concern is, when do we know that we're finished. An open ended war could get ugly.

The military doesn't pay enough for me to go. I'd have to sell my house because I wouldn't be able to afford the mortgage on a soldiers pay.:( And I'd also be making lease payments on a truck that I wouldn't be using.

[FLII ME]

Originally posted by Cane Says
Here here, what the hell is in canada anyway, mooses and snow. i mean there aren't even that many pro hockey teams in canada anymore, hahahahaha

come to Toronto and you wouldn't be saying that

:cool:

[wingwop]

Oh $hit Cane, you got him started. :D

[Cane Says]

Actually Flii, I would rather go to Montreal, I hear they have some awesome strip clubs and nightlife. But hey, always wanted to check out Canada, our 51st state. :D